On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 02:23:43 GMT, Roy Jose Lorr
<mosestorah@no-spam> wrote:
>
>
>Don Homuth wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 17:59:25 GMT, Roy Jose Lorr
>> <mosestorah@no-spam> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >Don Homuth wrote:
>> >
>> >> If your supposed
>> >> Absolute Morality is supposed to function as a sort of benchmark, it
>> >> fails in its application within minutes of first being considered.
>> >
>> >If you feel this way you should easily be able to present a
>> >moral situation that is exempt from being judged against
>> >Absolute Morality. I'd certainly be interested in seeing
>> >such an example.
>>
>> 1. Thou shalt not steal.
>>
>> If you were starving, or say your kids were starving, would you
>> "steal" fruit from a tree to satisfy the hunger, if you Knew you
>> wouldn't be caught at it?
>
>Whatever the reason for taking another's property, its stealing.
That's the definition, surely. But it answers a question I didn't
ask.
Would you do it?
>> 2. Thou shalt not bear false witness.
>>
>> If you came across a wounded soldier, a comrade in arms, terminally
>> wounded and you knew s/he was going to die, would you tell him/her
>> that they have Every chance of recovering, to ease their mind at the
>> time? (Be careful with this one, unless you've had occasion to
>> actually Do it. I have.)
>
>Whatever the reason for lying against another, it is
>bearing false witness.
Same problem. Would you look the guy in the eyes and tell him he was
dying?
>From the way you posed the question I believe you don't know
>what bearing false witness means in the context in which the
>Commandment is given.
I do indeed. As a PK, probably better than most, having had it
drilled into me constantly for my formative years.
>However, I'll answer in the spirit in which you asked the
>question: I'd either say nothing or if pressed by the dying
>individual, and I had no option other than to answer, I'd
>tell the truth.
Then you lack Human Compassion. Comforting the dying is the key
element here.
>And, yes, I've witnessed the deaths of friends and foes alike.
It's one thing to "witness" it, and quite another to participate in
the last few moments.
>> 3. Thou shalt not covet.
>>
>> If an acquaintance shows up with a Nice New Car -- the brand, model
>> and color you've always wanted -- in your heart, would you not say to
>> yourself that You wished you had it, rather than him? The prohibition
>> is, after all, one of the Most Absolute of the XXCs, after all.
>
>I might wish I had one like it but not at his expense.
Heh!
>> The idea of Absolute Morality must needs always be tempered by some
>> Human Compassion at times. Good Judgement works better.
>
>A fine human sentiment but one having no influence
>on Absolute Morality.
Which is Precisely the problem with claiming Absolute Morality in the
first place.
Don Homuth wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 02:23:43 GMT, Roy Jose Lorr
> <mosestorah@no-spam> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Don Homuth wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 17:59:25 GMT, Roy Jose Lorr
> >> <mosestorah@no-spam> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Don Homuth wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> If your supposed
> >> >> Absolute Morality is supposed to function as a sort of benchmark, it
> >> >> fails in its application within minutes of first being considered.
> >> >
> >> >If you feel this way you should easily be able to present a
> >> >moral situation that is exempt from being judged against
> >> >Absolute Morality. I'd certainly be interested in seeing
> >> >such an example.
> >>
> >> 1. Thou shalt not steal.
> >>
> >> If you were starving, or say your kids were starving, would you
> >> "steal" fruit from a tree to satisfy the hunger, if you Knew you
> >> wouldn't be caught at it?
> >
> >Whatever the reason for taking another's property, its stealing.
>
> That's the definition, surely. But it answers a question I didn't
> ask.
>
> Would you do it?
Would I break the law and steal bread to feed my
starving kids?... maybe. Do I think I'd be morally
right in doing so?... no.
>
>
> >> 2. Thou shalt not bear false witness.
> >>
> >> If you came across a wounded soldier, a comrade in arms, terminally
> >> wounded and you knew s/he was going to die, would you tell him/her
> >> that they have Every chance of recovering, to ease their mind at the
> >> time? (Be careful with this one, unless you've had occasion to
> >> actually Do it. I have.)
> >
> >Whatever the reason for lying against another, it is
> >bearing false witness.
>
> Same problem. Would you look the guy in the eyes and tell him he was
> dying?
My original answer stands, (below).
>
> >From the way you posed the question I believe you don't know
> >what bearing false witness means in the context in which the
> >Commandment is given.
>
> I do indeed. As a PK, probably better than most, having had it
> drilled into me constantly for my formative years.
The prohibition is not against lying in general but against
giving false testimony against one's neighbor.
What is a "PK"?
>
>
> >However, I'll answer in the spirit in which you asked the
> >question: I'd either say nothing or if pressed by the dying
> >individual, and I had no option other than to answer, I'd
> >tell the truth.
>
> Then you lack Human Compassion. Comforting the dying is the key
> element here.
I hardly think lying to an obviously dying man is
compassionate or comforting to the dying man.
Rather, I see such lies as giving compassion and
comfort to the liar.
>And, yes, I've witnessed the deaths of friends and foes alike.
>
> It's one thing to "witness" it, and quite another to participate in
> the last few moments.
Tell me about it.
>
>
> >> 3. Thou shalt not covet.
> >>
> >> If an acquaintance shows up with a Nice New Car -- the brand, model
> >> and color you've always wanted -- in your heart, would you not say to
> >> yourself that You wished you had it, rather than him? The prohibition
> >> is, after all, one of the Most Absolute of the XXCs, after all.
> >
> >I might wish I had one like it but not at his expense.
>
> Heh!
Well, we're talking about the "Absolute Moral", not
man's fallibility in the face of it.
>
>
> >> The idea of Absolute Morality must needs always be tempered by some
> >> Human Compassion at times. Good Judgement works better.
> >
> >A fine human sentiment but one having no influence
> >on Absolute Morality.
>
> Which is Precisely the problem with claiming Absolute Morality in the
> first place.
Absolute Morality is not something claimed. It is independent
of man's desire.
--
The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.
