"Calum Bennachie" <bennachie@no-spam> wrote in message news:<YzSKa.1540$9f7.100118@no-spam>...
> "Karen Hayward-King" <kiwibyrd@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:vpcnfv0prl5a1cvmu300p2ltq2jvs1lc8o@no-spam
> > On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:38:10 +1200, Mainlander <*@no-spam> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >Brian Le Gros, owner of the White House on Auckland's Queen Street, says
> > >hundreds of foreign women will be attracted to New Zealand to work in the
> > >newly legal industry.
> > >
> > >Mr Le Gros, who spent $5m building the White House and also owns parlours
> > >in Wellington, Noumea and is opening one in Tahiti, said legalising
> > >prostitution was the right thing to do.
> > >
> >
> > Not sure I'd want to see that arsehole and his cronies getting a
> > licence for brothel keeping...
> >
> > --
> > Karen Hayward-King
>
> One can hardly accept what Brian Le Gros says about the law. Like Maxim, he opposed it, and like
> them, has told porkies about it. And with his outburst in the paper, it is obvious he hasn't even
> read it.
>
> Funny how some brothel owners opposed the law.
>
> Calum
"I approve of the legislation, but what I'm doing is letting
parliamentarians know what is coming their way. This is just the tip
of it." (Work and Income refuses sex advert 01.07.2003 new Zealand
Herald)
His alleged opposition was not entirely total he has both endorsed it
and condemned it within a period of days. The other way of looking at
it is he was one of the very first to place advertisements to recruit
new prostitutes.
I suspect he was not flavour of the month with the corporate pro-pimp
lobby or that the prostitution lobby had favourite pimps and he was
simply not on their Christmas card list and didn't get asked out for a
beer.
I am so far away I can only guess Calum. You are the guy on the
ground, tell me this, was he on great terms with the NZPC? Did the
NZPC ever vote him pimp of the month or did he just get ignored?
The way I see it he obviously had a lot going for him, he is after all
in the girl flesh business. That should have been worth a few points
with the NZPC.
"David Herkt" <dherkt@no-spam> wrote in message news:<bdechj$3fs$1@no-spam>...
> "Calum Bennachie" <bennachie@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:P7jKa.1148$9f7.47926@no-spam
> > 60 for 59 against, 1 abstention.
> >
> > We won, We won, We won, We won,
>
> And I was so proud, Calum. We left the house and went and celebrated at a
> brothel too. And sent congratulations to Tim and Jay. I have to say the
> brothel was less than overawed, contemplating contractual workers versus
> employees, and OSH inspectors... but it worked for everyone Calum. Gaynz.com
> has a gossip column piece up in your honour.
>
> D.
I hope the US State Department are reading this NG for their next
Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor, country report. You
don't get too many Swedes posting about being in a brothel.
"Calum Bennachie" <bennachie@no-spam> wrote in message news:<ZzKKa.1447$9f7.85311@no-spam>...
> "brazen" <gay@no-spam> wrote in message news:3efb7254@no-spam
> >
> > Well if the purchaser was criminalised she may have felt more comfortable
> > contacting the police.
> <snip>
> > Gay
>
> Umm, no. The situation in Sweden has proven that not to be the case. Sex workers in Sweden are
> reporting among themselves and to other groups overseas that more violence is happening, but they
> won't go to the police as this "tags" them. They get watched and their clients nabbed, so they can
> no longer work.
>
> Calum
I work on trafficking issues in the Nordic - Baltic area and have done
for two full years. I talk to Estonians, Norwegians and Swedes every
single working day. Are you going to post your two emails or not?
Show us some recent press coverage of this tagging! Show us a Swedish
Sue Bradford blaming the police for doing theit job. mostly I would
like you to post that hard evidence you pretended to have by way of
those two emails.
"lisieux" <lisieux@no-spam> wrote in message
news:7734dcd6.0307031721.1435decc@no-spam
> "Calum Bennachie" <bennachie@no-spam> wrote in message
news:<ZzKKa.1447$9f7.85311@no-spam>...
> > "brazen" <gay@no-spam> wrote in message news:3efb7254@no-spam
> > >
> > > Well if the purchaser was criminalised she may have felt more comfortable
> > > contacting the police.
> > <snip>
> > > Gay
> >
> > Umm, no. The situation in Sweden has proven that not to be the case. Sex workers in Sweden are
> > reporting among themselves and to other groups overseas that more violence is happening, but
they
> > won't go to the police as this "tags" them. They get watched and their clients nabbed, so they
can
> > no longer work.
> >
> > Calum
>
> I work on trafficking issues in the Nordic - Baltic area and have done
> for two full years. I talk to Estonians, Norwegians and Swedes every
> single working day. Are you going to post your two emails or not?
>
> Show us some recent press coverage of this tagging! Show us a Swedish
> Sue Bradford blaming the police for doing theit job. mostly I would
> like you to post that hard evidence you pretended to have by way of
> those two emails.
You are obviously not doing a very good job then if you do not know what is happening under your
very nose.
The National Criminal Intelligence Service and the National Criminal Investigation Unit have both
recorded in their joint report "Situation Report 4 "Trafficking in Women" of December 31 2001"
(2002) that "In 2001 the police in Norrbotten has reported on an increase of the sex trade in women
from Russia in the region. Buses arrive regularly every weekend and the women are accommodated at
brothels and in holiday camps in Finnmark, Ivalo, Rovaniemi, Uleåborg, Kemi, Kemimaa and Torneå. The
travels seem to be extremely well organised and they have their own drivers and tour leaders. The
women mainly come from the Murmansk area. Most of them enter the country with Finnish Schengen visas
and usually stay for 1 - 7 days" (p 22). They also report similar things happening in other parts
of Sweden, such as Skåne, and southern Sweden. In Västra Götaland, they received "50 - 100 tip-offs
concerning trafficking in women and prostitution" during 2001. At page 35, they admit "The police
have had information on trafficking in women via the Internet. On the Internet the pimps can offer
the women for escort service and sexual services and also assume the responsibility for transporting
the woman to the client" and later that they do not have the resources to examine this area. In
June 2002, Ingela Klinteberg stated "prostitution on Internet has increased and that the police can
not enforce the law". You should also note that the National Criminal Intelligence Service and the
National Criminal Investigation Unit also stated in their report "There are, however, a number of
known veiled brothels within the Stockholm City Police Department that are being kept under
surveillance" (p 20). While it initially reads as of the police are running the "veiled brothels"
it is only because of the bad translation it reads so. What they mean is that the Stockholm Police
Department is aware of a number of clandestine brothels, admitting that clandestine prostitution
exists. Something you have denied. Again, you commit another "substantive error of fact". You
should also note that the report also notes that Police keep a note of a sex workers address to
watch who visits that address.
All of these figures- taken from official Swedish Government papers contradict what you are
claiming.
You ask what Lotta Larson and Gunilla Berglund wrote. Why didn't you ask earlier? I gave the
relevant extracts, but here is what Lotta stated:
Calum Bennachie,
"The Swedish law prohibiting the purchase of sexual services has not been in force long enough to be
evaluated.
"I sorry to say I don't have answers to all the questions you have and most of the material I do
have is in Swedish. Enclosed, however, are a report written by Kajsa Wahlberg, Swedens rapporteur on
Trafficking, and a speach made by Ingela Klinteberg that has some statistics. I'm afraid that's all
I can do for you with this short notice.
"Reported crimes according to BRÅ:
1999 94
2000 92
2001 86
Jan-July 2002 58
Best regards,
Lotta Larsson"
And Gunilla wrote:
Ju 2002/6773/L5
Dear Calum Bennachie,
In reference to your e-mail I would hereby like to provide you with the following information.
Figures re prostitution
During 1999-2001, 94, 92, and 86 police offence reports were filed in connection with the Act
prohibiting the purchase of sexual services. The number of convictions during the same period of
time amounted to 11, 34 and 54. Figures for 2002 are not yet available.
Trafficking in Human Beings
Figures re Trafficking in Human Beings
The Swedish National Police Board has estimated that since the year 2000, between 200 and 500 women
were trafficked to Sweden per year. Most of the women are believed to come from Eastern Europe and
the Baltic Countries. The police has noticed several factors indicating an increase in this
activity, which was relatively unknown only a few years ago. The police investigators report that
the organisers of trafficking in human beings into Sweden seem to use the same channels as those
used for other illegal trafficking, for example that of drugs.
Legislation against Trafficking in Human Beings
In 1998, a Parliamentary Criminal Law Committee on Sexual Offences was established. It was
instructed to undertake a complete review of the legal provisions on sexual offences and to consider
whether Sweden's legislation needed to be made more stringent. Following the Committee's proposal,
the Government submitted a bill to Parliament, focusing on the question of trafficking in human
beings for sexual purposes. In June 2002, Parliament passed a law, which specifically makes
trafficking in human beings for sexual purposes a separate crime. The "Prohibiting Trafficking in
Human Beings for Sexual Purposes Act" entered into force on 1 July, 2002.
The new law concentrates on trafficking in human beings for sexual purposes, but the new provision
should be seen as a first step towards future extended penal legislation covering all forms of
trafficking, such as trafficking for other forms of exploitation. The need to introduce specific
provisions on other forms of trafficking is considered in the process of ratification and
implementation of international instruments in this field (see below under International
Commitments).
The new law has been introduced in the Swedish Penal Code in section 1 a of chapter 4 on Crimes
against Liberty and Peace. It covers all cross-border trafficking for sexual exploitation in which
the perpetrator exploits the vulnerability of another person. The new provision states that:
Responsibility for the crime of trafficking in human beings for sexual purposes will apply to anyone
who
1) by the use of unlawful coercion, deception or of any other similar improper means, induces
another to go to or to be transported abroad for the purpose of sexual offences, prostitution or
other forms of exploitation for sexual purposes,
2) for such a purpose and by the use of such improper means as mentioned transports, harbours or
receives someone who has arrived to a country under such conditions, and
3) commits any such act against a victim who has not attained 18 years of age, even if no improper
means have been used.
Attempts, preparations and conspiracy to trafficking in human beings for sexual purposes, as well as
failure to reveal such activity, have also been defined as criminal acts (chapter 4, section 10 and
chapter 23, section 6).
The punishment shall be imprisonment for a minimum of two and a maximum of ten years or, in less
serious cases, imprisonment for a maximum of four years. By Swedish standards this penalty scale is
quite severe.
In the past, trafficking in human beings was penalised under different penal provisions. Depending
on the individual case, provisions on kidnapping, unlawful deprivation of liberty, placing a person
in a distressful situation, coercion, sexual exploitation and procuring have been applicable. It was
possible to take legal proceedings against trafficking already before the new law came into being.
Now, it will be possible to deal with all the different stages in trafficking as one crime. Another
reason for the adoption of a specific law was to highlight the present increase in trafficking in
human beings. It is also believed to facilitate international co-operation against trafficking,
which Swedish authorities see as the only way to effectively address the problem.
International Commitments
As noted above, the need to introduce legal provisions also on other forms of trafficking will be
considered in the process of Sweden's ratification and implementation of international instruments
in this field.
Sweden has signed the UN Convention Against Transnational Organised Crimes and its additional
Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons, Especially Women and Children. A
report is currently being prepared on the legislative amendments and other measures needed for
Sweden to be able to ratify and fulfil the obligations established in the Protocol, as well as in
the Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child, and to implement the EU draft
Council Framework Decision on combating trafficking in human beings. This report is expected to be
finalised in the autumn of 2002. It will first be submitted to relevant authorities and
organisations for comments. Subsequently, the Government is expected to submit a bill to Parliament
on ratification and the necessary legislative measures.
If you have any further questions, do not hesitate to contact me.
Yours sincerely,
Gunilla Berglund
Ministry of Justice
Division for Criminal Law
--------------------------------------------
Considering that Gunilla Eckberg estimates over 150,000 clients in Sweden, that is a conviction rate
of less than 0.0001% for each of the years listed. While others more au fait with prostitution than
Ms Eckberg would put the number of clients at a lesser figure (around 90k- 100k), it is still less
than a negligible number of convictions. Not a good record, and indicative of the low priority
given by the police to the upkeep of this law.
Not only do you speak from a position of ignorance by distance about New Zealand, but you continue
to make false claims about Sweden. Facts that I have stated that are backed up by official papers.
Facts you deny. This indicates you don't know a thing about what you are supposedly "expert" in.
Now that you have been shown to be the liar and fraud that you are, fuck off. You are not welcome
here in nsq
Calum
"Calum Bennachie" <bennachie@no-spam> wrote in message
news:FTaNa.2828$9f7.282913@no-spam
>
> "lisieux" <lisieux@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:7734dcd6.0307031721.1435decc@no-spam
> > "Calum Bennachie" <bennachie@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:<ZzKKa.1447$9f7.85311@no-spam>...
> > > "brazen" <gay@no-spam> wrote in message
news:3efb7254@no-spam
> > > >
> > > > Well if the purchaser was criminalised she may have felt more
comfortable
> > > > contacting the police.
> > > <snip>
> > > > Gay
> > >
> > > Umm, no. The situation in Sweden has proven that not to be the case.
Sex workers in Sweden are
> > > reporting among themselves and to other groups overseas that more
violence is happening, but
> they
> > > won't go to the police as this "tags" them. They get watched and
their clients nabbed, so they
> can
> > > no longer work.
> > >
> > > Calum
> >
> > I work on trafficking issues in the Nordic - Baltic area and have done
> > for two full years. I talk to Estonians, Norwegians and Swedes every
> > single working day. Are you going to post your two emails or not?
> >
> > Show us some recent press coverage of this tagging! Show us a Swedish
> > Sue Bradford blaming the police for doing theit job. mostly I would
> > like you to post that hard evidence you pretended to have by way of
> > those two emails.
>
> You are obviously not doing a very good job then if you do not know what
is happening under your
> very nose.
>
> The National Criminal Intelligence Service and the National Criminal
Investigation Unit have both
> recorded in their joint report "Situation Report 4 "Trafficking in Women"
of December 31 2001"
> (2002) that "In 2001 the police in Norrbotten has reported on an increase
of the sex trade in women
> from Russia in the region.
I recently told a well known Labour MP to ask the Norrbotten Police
Commissioner Karl-Bertil Arosenius about all the discoverable downside
issues you have just raised and I also mentioned the Finnish visa problem in
the following terms. I would have routinely used the word 'downside' because
it was a message being sent to New Zealand and better the truth than
anything less and the Norrbotten problem still existed though not perhaps in
Sweden.
"A Finnish Schengen visa will get a Russian girl to Sweden as well however
she will not be a prostitute for very long because it is simply not that
easy to do. The Russian game has moved to Germany and London and even
Ireland they are in the business of thousands who are kept in a cycle of
trafficking rather than a few dozen being sent on a tempoary basis to
Sweden. After they reach London or Germany they might end up in Belize or
South Korea or even Australia and most of them would then simply vanish and
so it goes on."
The internet issue I also mentioned to the same Labour MP and gave her the
impression that there was not a great deal a domestic agency can actually do
about the internet as it was a trans global crime issue rather than a purely
domestic Swedish problem. There are two separate campaigns in the region to
deal with Nordic-Baltic trafficking.
Your Swedish emails hardly support what you claimed they supported when
street fronted prostitution evaporated the number of purchasers also
diminished to the same extent which was what was intended. On the
trafficking issue the Russian girls were at *that* time being brought into
Sweden for a few *days*, it would be a mistake to think a remedy was not
applied.
The trafficking was going to happen as a factor of the internet and trans
global criminals without respect to what domestic laws Sweden had and the
responsibility of the Swedes was to make sure that it did not happen in
their jurisdiction. The PRB will have no effect at all on trafficking or the
exploitation of vulnerable people.
Phil Goff was at some pains to assure the NZ Parliament that he would not
get in the way of the trans global crime syndicates. You were expecting
miracles in Sweden and a resolution of internet prostitution which is hardly
a solely Swedish issue when your very own country has not made the slightest
attempt to do the one thing or to do the other and now that your legislation
has been passed they never will.
I can't even get you to concede the black and white text in Hansard so that
does not really surprise me. what were your questions to the Swedes by the
way? I had asked for the context. The high priority the Swedes put on these
issues is reflected in their budget and their expensive anti-trafficking
campaigns.
When is New Zealand going to fix internet prostitution and trafficking in
Oceania? Without the exploitation of Chinese and Thai girls many of whom can
barely speak English your domestic vice trade in NZ would have a big hole in
it. Your country needs to exploit the vulnerable to have a prosperous vice
trade.
Buses arrive regularly every weekend and the women are accommodated at
> brothels and in holiday camps in Finnmark, Ivalo, Rovaniemi, Uleåborg,
Kemi, Kemimaa and Torneå. The
> travels seem to be extremely well organised and they have their own
drivers and tour leaders. The
> women mainly come from the Murmansk area. Most of them enter the country
with Finnish Schengen visas
> and usually stay for 1 - 7 days" (p 22). They also report similar things
happening in other parts
> of Sweden, such as Skåne, and southern Sweden. In Västra Götaland, they
received "50 - 100 tip-offs
> concerning trafficking in women and prostitution" during 2001. At page
35, they admit "The police
> have had information on trafficking in women via the Internet. On the
Internet the pimps can offer
> the women for escort service and sexual services and also assume the
responsibility for transporting
> the woman to the client" and later that they do not have the resources to
examine this area. In
> June 2002, Ingela Klinteberg stated "prostitution on Internet has
increased and that the police can
> not enforce the law". You should also note that the National Criminal
Intelligence Service and the
> National Criminal Investigation Unit also stated in their report "There
are, however, a number of
> known veiled brothels within the Stockholm City Police Department that are
being kept under
> surveillance" (p 20). While it initially reads as of the police are
running the "veiled brothels"
> it is only because of the bad translation it reads so. What they mean is
that the Stockholm Police
> Department is aware of a number of clandestine brothels, admitting that
clandestine prostitution
> exists. Something you have denied. Again, you commit another
"substantive error of fact". You
> should also note that the report also notes that Police keep a note of a
sex workers address to
> watch who visits that address.
>
> All of these figures- taken from official Swedish Government papers
contradict what you are
> claiming.
>
> You ask what Lotta Larson and Gunilla Berglund wrote. Why didn't you ask
earlier? I gave the
> relevant extracts, but here is what Lotta stated:
>
> Calum Bennachie,
>
> "The Swedish law prohibiting the purchase of sexual services has not been
in force long enough to be
> evaluated.
>
> "I sorry to say I don't have answers to all the questions you have and
most of the material I do
> have is in Swedish. Enclosed, however, are a report written by Kajsa
Wahlberg, Swedens rapporteur on
> Trafficking, and a speach made by Ingela Klinteberg that has some
statistics. I'm afraid that's all
> I can do for you with this short notice.
>
> "Reported crimes according to BRÅ:
> 1999 94
> 2000 92
> 2001 86
> Jan-July 2002 58
>
> Best regards,
>
> Lotta Larsson"
>
> And Gunilla wrote:
>
> Ju 2002/6773/L5
>
> Dear Calum Bennachie,
>
> In reference to your e-mail I would hereby like to provide you with the
following information.
>
> Figures re prostitution
>
> During 1999-2001, 94, 92, and 86 police offence reports were filed in
connection with the Act
> prohibiting the purchase of sexual services. The number of convictions
during the same period of
> time amounted to 11, 34 and 54. Figures for 2002 are not yet available.
>
> Trafficking in Human Beings
>
> Figures re Trafficking in Human Beings
>
> The Swedish National Police Board has estimated that since the year 2000,
between 200 and 500 women
> were trafficked to Sweden per year. Most of the women are believed to come
from Eastern Europe and
> the Baltic Countries. The police has noticed several factors indicating an
increase in this
> activity, which was relatively unknown only a few years ago. The police
investigators report that
> the organisers of trafficking in human beings into Sweden seem to use the
same channels as those
> used for other illegal trafficking, for example that of drugs.
>
> Legislation against Trafficking in Human Beings
>
> In 1998, a Parliamentary Criminal Law Committee on Sexual Offences was
established. It was
> instructed to undertake a complete review of the legal provisions on
sexual offences and to consider
> whether Sweden's legislation needed to be made more stringent. Following
the Committee's proposal,
> the Government submitted a bill to Parliament, focusing on the question of
trafficking in human
> beings for sexual purposes. In June 2002, Parliament passed a law, which
specifically makes
> trafficking in human beings for sexual purposes a separate crime. The
"Prohibiting Trafficking in
> Human Beings for Sexual Purposes Act" entered into force on 1 July, 2002.
>
> The new law concentrates on trafficking in human beings for sexual
purposes, but the new provision
> should be seen as a first step towards future extended penal legislation
covering all forms of
> trafficking, such as trafficking for other forms of exploitation. The need
to introduce specific
> provisions on other forms of trafficking is considered in the process of
ratification and
> implementation of international instruments in this field (see below under
International
> Commitments).
>
> The new law has been introduced in the Swedish Penal Code in section 1 a
of chapter 4 on Crimes
> against Liberty and Peace. It covers all cross-border trafficking for
sexual exploitation in which
> the perpetrator exploits the vulnerability of another person. The new
provision states that:
>
> Responsibility for the crime of trafficking in human beings for sexual
purposes will apply to anyone
> who
>
> 1) by the use of unlawful coercion, deception or of any other similar
improper means, induces
> another to go to or to be transported abroad for the purpose of sexual
offences, prostitution or
> other forms of exploitation for sexual purposes,
>
> 2) for such a purpose and by the use of such improper means as mentioned
transports, harbours or
> receives someone who has arrived to a country under such conditions, and
>
> 3) commits any such act against a victim who has not attained 18 years of
age, even if no improper
> means have been used.
>
> Attempts, preparations and conspiracy to trafficking in human beings for
sexual purposes, as well as
> failure to reveal such activity, have also been defined as criminal acts
(chapter 4, section 10 and
> chapter 23, section 6).
>
> The punishment shall be imprisonment for a minimum of two and a maximum of
ten years or, in less
> serious cases, imprisonment for a maximum of four years. By Swedish
standards this penalty scale is
> quite severe.
>
> In the past, trafficking in human beings was penalised under different
penal provisions. Depending
> on the individual case, provisions on kidnapping, unlawful deprivation of
liberty, placing a person
> in a distressful situation, coercion, sexual exploitation and procuring
have been applicable. It was
> possible to take legal proceedings against trafficking already before the
new law came into being.
> Now, it will be possible to deal with all the different stages in
trafficking as one crime. Another
> reason for the adoption of a specific law was to highlight the present
increase in trafficking in
> human beings. It is also believed to facilitate international co-operation
against trafficking,
> which Swedish authorities see as the only way to effectively address the
problem.
>
> International Commitments
>
> As noted above, the need to introduce legal provisions also on other forms
of trafficking will be
> considered in the process of Sweden's ratification and implementation of
international instruments
> in this field.
>
> Sweden has signed the UN Convention Against Transnational Organised Crimes
and its additional
> Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons,
Especially Women and Children. A
> report is currently being prepared on the legislative amendments and other
measures needed for
> Sweden to be able to ratify and fulfil the obligations established in the
Protocol, as well as in
> the Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child, and to
implement the EU draft
> Council Framework Decision on combating trafficking in human beings. This
report is expected to be
> finalised in the autumn of 2002. It will first be submitted to relevant
authorities and
> organisations for comments. Subsequently, the Government is expected to
submit a bill to Parliament
> on ratification and the necessary legislative measures.
>
> If you have any further questions, do not hesitate to contact me.
>
> Yours sincerely,
>
> Gunilla Berglund
> Ministry of Justice
> Division for Criminal Law
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Considering that Gunilla Eckberg estimates over 150,000 clients in Sweden,
that is a conviction rate
> of less than 0.0001% for each of the years listed. While others more au
fait with prostitution than
> Ms Eckberg would put the number of clients at a lesser figure (around 90k-
100k), it is still less
> than a negligible number of convictions. Not a good record, and
indicative of the low priority
> given by the police to the upkeep of this law.
>
> Not only do you speak from a position of ignorance by distance about New
Zealand, but you continue
> to make false claims about Sweden. Facts that I have stated that are
backed up by official papers.
> Facts you deny. This indicates you don't know a thing about what you are
supposedly "expert" in.
>
> Now that you have been shown to be the liar and fraud that you are, fuck
off. You are not welcome
> here in nsq
>
> Calum
>
>
"lisieux" <lisieux@no-spam> wrote in message
news:7734dcd6.0307040836.535576cc@no-spam
> "Calum Bennachie" <bennachie@no-spam> wrote in message
>
> >
> > Now that you have been shown to be the liar and fraud that you are, fuck off. You are not
welcome
> > here in nsq
> >
> > Calum
>
> It is not actually your personal NZPC moderated newsgroup Calum and
> telling perectly polite people to f**k off is seemingly your harassing
> method of rebuttal. Why do you do that? Sweden does not have any
> brothels which you can actually point to and New Zealand has more
> brothels than Norway, Finland and Sweden combined.
>
> The police track prostitution in Sweden. How many updates did you
> actually ask the Swedish police to send you? I have been involved in
> major anti-traffiking campaigns in Northern Europe and it is always
> smart to get dynamic reporting. I direct what is potentially the most
> successful anti-trafficking coalition in the British Isles.
>
> In your country many of the girls can't even speak English and they
> had to put their mark on a range of activities they were told they
> *had* to do. The new legislation is not actually going to change that,
> it was illegal at the time and it remains illegal with the new bill.
> How many brothels did the NZPC ever ask the police to bust for
> coercion?
Again, no real answer, just (racist) allegations made from a position of ignorance by distance, and
yet more "substantive errors of fact".
You have been proven a fraud. You have just admitted it yourself as well. In message
news:7734dcd6.0307031721.1435decc@no-spam you claimed "I work on trafficking issues in
the Nordic - Baltic area and have done for two full years. I talk to Estonians, Norwegians and
Swedes every single working day."
In this message, you now claim "I direct what is potentially the most successful anti-trafficking
coalition in the British Isles."
These two are not the same, and you have contradicted yourself. Again.
Fuck off noddy. You are a liar, a con, and a scam artist.
Calum
lisieux@no-spam (lisieux) wrote in message news:<7734dcd6.0307040836.535576cc@no-spam>...
> "Calum Bennachie" <bennachie@no-spam> wrote in message
>
> >
> > Now that you have been shown to be the liar and fraud that you are, fuck off. You are not welcome
> > here in nsq
> >
> > Calum
>
> It is not actually your personal NZPC moderated newsgroup Calum and
> telling perectly polite people to f**k off is seemingly your harassing
> method of rebuttal. Why do you do that? Sweden does not have any
> brothels which you can actually point to and New Zealand has more
> brothels than Norway, Finland and Sweden combined.
Wow, all this, and sex work wasn't even decriminalised here until last week?
>
> The police track prostitution in Sweden. How many updates did you
> actually ask the Swedish police to send you? I have been involved in
> major anti-traffiking campaigns in Northern Europe and it is always
> smart to get dynamic reporting. I direct what is potentially the most
> successful anti-trafficking coalition in the British Isles.
>
That's all very well, but then the United Kingdom is backward in most things.
> In your country many of the girls can't even speak English and they
> had to put their mark on a range of activities they were told they
> *had* to do. The new legislation is not actually going to change that,
> it was illegal at the time and it remains illegal with the new bill.
> How many brothels did the NZPC ever ask the police to bust for
> coercion?
I find that contention fascinating, given that Lianne Dalziel successfully
moved anti-trafficking amendments to the legislation.
Please go away. Your interference is unwanted in this country. Try Ireland,
it seems to have more than enough problems with Catholic *clergy* child
sexual abuse.
Craig
sadistasm@no-spam (Craig) wrote in message news:<4d2071a7.0307041823.1bcfd3e6@no-spam>...
> lisieux@no-spam (lisieux) wrote in message news:<7734dcd6.0307040836.535576cc@no-spam>...
> > "Calum Bennachie" <bennachie@no-spam> wrote in message
> >
> > >
> > > Now that you have been shown to be the liar and fraud that you are, fuck off. You are not welcome
> > > here in nsq
> > >
> > > Calum
> >
> > It is not actually your personal NZPC moderated newsgroup Calum and
> > telling perectly polite people to f**k off is seemingly your harassing
> > method of rebuttal. Why do you do that? Sweden does not have any
> > brothels which you can actually point to and New Zealand has more
> > brothels than Norway, Finland and Sweden combined.
>
> Wow, all this, and sex work wasn't even decriminalised here until last week?
> >
> > The police track prostitution in Sweden. How many updates did you
> > actually ask the Swedish police to send you? I have been involved in
> > major anti-traffiking campaigns in Northern Europe and it is always
> > smart to get dynamic reporting. I direct what is potentially the most
> > successful anti-trafficking coalition in the British Isles.
> >
> That's all very well, but then the United Kingdom is backward in most things.
>
> > In your country many of the girls can't even speak English and they
> > had to put their mark on a range of activities they were told they
> > *had* to do. The new legislation is not actually going to change that,
> > it was illegal at the time and it remains illegal with the new bill.
> > How many brothels did the NZPC ever ask the police to bust for
> > coercion?
>
> I find that contention fascinating, given that Lianne Dalziel successfully
> moved anti-trafficking amendments to the legislation.
>
> Please go away. Your interference is unwanted in this country. Try Ireland,
> it seems to have more than enough problems with Catholic *clergy* child
> sexual abuse.
>
>
> Craig
The anti-trafficking and anti-coercion provisions of the Prostitution
Reform Bill are extremely threadbare and are a lick of paint compared
to the Swedish model or the Nordic-Baltic or regional IOM initiatives.
If a true anti-trafficking agenda had been adopted or treaty
compliance seriously sought the PRB would not have left the committee
stage. I doubt if you can show me one single statement from the NZPC
demanding anti-trafficking raids.
A working definition of legal consent had to be abandoned because
they could simply not get the bill opassed if they had addressed that
problem in relation to drugs, competency, trafficking and pimping or
by way of treaty compliance.
Tim Barnett and Phil Goff *never* claimed (not even for a moment) that
their bill was going to use UN definitions of coercion or pimping or
even for that matter the English dictionary definitions and sure
enough the PRB avoided doing just that.
"Calum Bennachie" <bennachie@no-spam> wrote in message news:<DmpNa.2934$9f7.308542@no-spam>...
> "lisieux" <lisieux@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:7734dcd6.0307040836.535576cc@no-spam
> > "Calum Bennachie" <bennachie@no-spam> wrote in message
> >
> > >
> > > Now that you have been shown to be the liar and fraud that you are, fuck off. You are not
> welcome
> > > here in nsq
> > >
> > > Calum
> >
> > It is not actually your personal NZPC moderated newsgroup Calum and
> > telling perectly polite people to f**k off is seemingly your harassing
> > method of rebuttal. Why do you do that? Sweden does not have any
> > brothels which you can actually point to and New Zealand has more
> > brothels than Norway, Finland and Sweden combined.
> >
> > The police track prostitution in Sweden. How many updates did you
> > actually ask the Swedish police to send you? I have been involved in
> > major anti-traffiking campaigns in Northern Europe and it is always
> > smart to get dynamic reporting. I direct what is potentially the most
> > successful anti-trafficking coalition in the British Isles.
> >
> > In your country many of the girls can't even speak English and they
> > had to put their mark on a range of activities they were told they
> > *had* to do. The new legislation is not actually going to change that,
> > it was illegal at the time and it remains illegal with the new bill.
> > How many brothels did the NZPC ever ask the police to bust for
> > coercion?
>
> Again, no real answer, just (racist) allegations made from a position of ignorance by distance, and
> yet more "substantive errors of fact".
Using girls who can't speak English in brothels for the kind of
coerced sexual exploitation illustrated in many 'client' sex tourism
reviews on the internet is racism and objecting to their exploitation
would be in conformity with the accepted UN and CATW perspectives.
The NZPC have frequently made references to the same genre of events
and even the opponents of the NZPC bill are expecting to see the
enforcement aspects of the legislation implemented and judged by
arrests and prosecutions. The CEDAW Committee are concerned about
legislation which promotes sex tourism.
>
> You have been proven a fraud. You have just admitted it yourself as well. In message
> news:7734dcd6.0307031721.1435decc@no-spam you claimed "I work on trafficking issues in
> the Nordic - Baltic area and have done for two full years. I talk to Estonians, Norwegians and
> Swedes every single working day."
I am a lead research officer working on several anti-trafficking
campaigns in Northern Europe and I would deal with enforcement
agencies and government bodies (and senior politicians) just about
every day and the Nordic-Baltic region would crtainly be the primary
area of activity.
I would also appear in front of committees and regularly advise
European political parties on their press and policy material. Much of
what I do is part of the public record and some of it isn't.
>
> In this message, you now claim "I direct what is potentially the most successful anti-trafficking
> coalition in the British Isles."
That would certainly be true.
>
> These two are not the same, and you have contradicted yourself. Again.
>
> Fuck off noddy. You are a liar, a con, and a scam artist.
>
> Calum
Your manners are simply appalling.
lisieux@no-spam (lisieux) wrote in message news:<7734dcd6.0307031721.1435decc@no-spam>...
> "Calum Bennachie" <bennachie@no-spam> wrote in message news:<ZzKKa.1447$9f7.85311@no-spam>...
> > "brazen" <gay@no-spam> wrote in message news:3efb7254@no-spam
> > >
> > > Well if the purchaser was criminalised she may have felt more comfortable
> > > contacting the police.
> <snip>
> > > Gay
> >
> > Umm, no. The situation in Sweden has proven that not to be the case. Sex workers in Sweden are
> > reporting among themselves and to other groups overseas that more violence is happening, but they
> > won't go to the police as this "tags" them. They get watched and their clients nabbed, so they can
> > no longer work.
> >
> > Calum
>
> I work on trafficking issues in the Nordic - Baltic area and have done
> for two full years. I talk to Estonians, Norwegians and Swedes every
> single working day. Are you going to post your two emails or not?
>
> Show us some recent press coverage of this tagging! Show us a Swedish
> Sue Bradford blaming the police for doing theit job. mostly I would
> like you to post that hard evidence you pretended to have by way of
> those two emails.
You have made a range of seemingly spurious allegations about quite a
few things, can you give us actual reportage of this tagging taking
place with respect to one specific incident or several?
You were also claiming that the Swedish police do not bother to arrest
people and the two arguments seem to directly contradict each other.
I geniunely do not wish to sound rude or petulant but I have noticed
that your ideas and arguments frequently conflict with each other.
Have you a court case relating to this 'tagging' for example?
"Calum Bennachie" <bennachie@no-spam> wrote in message news:<ZzKKa.1447$9f7.85311@no-spam>...
> "brazen" <gay@no-spam> wrote in message news:3efb7254@no-spam
> >
> > Well if the purchaser was criminalised she may have felt more comfortable
> > contacting the police.
> <snip>
> > Gay
>
> Umm, no. The situation in Sweden has proven that not to be the case. Sex workers in Sweden are
> reporting among themselves and to other groups overseas that more violence is happening, but they
> won't go to the police as this "tags" them. They get watched and their clients nabbed, so they can
> no longer work.
>
> Calum
Once again the very most we were given on this by you was reports
about some day-trippers on Schengen visas being bussed into Sweden at
one point in time and that was largely relating to speculative
criminal activities almost entirely focused on Russia and Finland.
I do not think anybody could ever suggest that the New Zealand
anti-trafficking culture was remotely as sincere as the Swedish or
other Nordic-Baltic campaigns (1). Even a casual excursion on the
internet will reveal that New Zealand probably has more brothels than
most of the Scandanavian countries combined.
The visa system in New Zealand and Australia are also abused by
organized crime as are the educational arrangements. can you point to
*one* brothel in Sweden, a historic establishment over the last two
years or a current one. It would take a Swede ten seconds to find ten
in New Zealand.
Has New Zealand posters, billboards etc. on their streets warning
vulnerable girls about pimps or traffickers? I do not think so, I
know that pimps were allowed to groom, advertise and exploit vulnrable
females openly in NZ. New Zealand is pimp's paradise, that is the
truth.
Many of the PRB supporters actually ended up celebrating in brothels
after their bill was passed!
(1)
Activists combat sex trafficking in east Europe
2002-07-18
THE POST-GAZETTE (Pitzburg, USA), 1 July, 2002, Written by Paul
Jaskunas A disturbing image can be seen everywhere on Lithuania's
billboards and buses: a lifeless young woman suspended in the air like
a marionette, hanging by sharp hooks. Beneath is a warning: "You Will
Be Sold Like A Doll." "You" refers to the wome... read more
In article <7734dcd6.0307050443.16cde359@no-spam>,
lisieux@no-spam (lisieux) wrote:
> I am a lead research officer working on several anti-trafficking
> campaigns in Northern Europe and I would deal with enforcement
> agencies and government bodies (and senior politicians) just about
> every day and the Nordic-Baltic region would crtainly be the primary
> area of activity.
>
> I would also appear in front of committees and regularly advise
> European political parties on their press and policy material. Much of
> what I do is part of the public record and some of it isn't.
>
>
> >
> > In this message, you now claim "I direct what is potentially the most
> > successful anti-trafficking
> > coalition in the British Isles."
>
> That would certainly be true.
yeah yeah, I'm sure it "would" all be true if it was true. So many
"would"s in your text your life in fantasy land is very clear.
now honour your offer. Callum posted the full content of the two
Swedish emails, you said you would not post in this news group again if
he did.
"ange" <ange@no-spam> wrote in message
news:ange-35DAA5.09202106072003@no-spam
<snip>
> now honour your offer. Callum posted the full content of the two
> Swedish emails, you said you would not post in this news group again if
> he did.
Did he? His continued posting here then proves he is even more of a fraud and a liar and a Fuck off
Noddy than anyone ever realised before.
I strongly suggest he takes the words of William Dunbar, Makar to James IV of Scots, and applies the
present tense verb of the 8th word in line 13 of Dunbar's "In secreit place this hyndir nycht" and
the 5th word in line 111 of his "As yung Awrora with cristall haile" to his presence here.
May yone oratrice, nipcaik, scamlers bawis teme beis, frae hes bowk in wrettingis upskail; and hes
shrenken, stokie quhillelillie- it nae be storkyn, bot only cruke- fro hes gyng be tirvit, untilt a
towdie rak he doth hae, tho nae wlonk be sho and nane with sho will mell or bruik or dans the dery
dan, tho but dowt in hir best fasoun fartingaillis be shou dicht.
Or perhaps Shakespeare would have said he is "a droning motley-minded baggage"*.
Calum
(* Courtesy of SIG- Shakespeare Insult Generator)
In nz.general Gregory <gregory.humanitas@no-spam> wrote:
> I know enough about New Zealand
You know enough about NZ to half-fill a postage stamp when written with a
very large felt-tipped pen.
It is more than obvious that you posting here has nothing to do with NZ, and
everything to do with some rather disturbing obessions and fantasies that
you should be getting therapy for.
Now FOAD.
"ange" <ange@no-spam> wrote in message
news:ange-35DAA5.09202106072003@no-spam
> In article <7734dcd6.0307050443.16cde359@no-spam>,
> lisieux@no-spam (lisieux) wrote:
>
> > I am a lead research officer working on several anti-trafficking
> > campaigns in Northern Europe and I would deal with enforcement
> > agencies and government bodies (and senior politicians) just about
> > every day and the Nordic-Baltic region would crtainly be the primary
> > area of activity.
> >
> > I would also appear in front of committees and regularly advise
> > European political parties on their press and policy material. Much of
> > what I do is part of the public record and some of it isn't.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > In this message, you now claim "I direct what is potentially the most
> > > successful anti-trafficking
> > > coalition in the British Isles."
> >
> > That would certainly be true.
>
>
> yeah yeah, I'm sure it "would" all be true if it was true. So many
> "would"s in your text your life in fantasy land is very clear.
It is true.
:o))
>
> now honour your offer. Callum posted the full content of the two
> Swedish emails, you said you would not post in this news group again if
> he did.
When did he post the full contents?
"Steve" <steve@no-spam> wrote in message
news:v1nOa.3471$9f7.373445@no-spam
> lisieux allegedly said:
>
> > Finland had to choose between Greece which is a country barely in
> > control of itself becaue of prostitution induced organized crime and
> > trafficking and Sweden which is seen by the USA as being one of the
> > very good guys. Finland will go with the Swedish idea to the greater
> > extent.
> >
> > I am delighted that the Finns are thinking of going one better and
> > tackling the internet variants of organized crime directly.
>
> Greeks and Finns are very different types of people.
Must be the weather.
>
> The assumption that runs through all your posts is that people are the
same
> everywhere.
In many important respects they are.
>
> In many ways they are. In many ways they are not.
Exactly my own thoughts.
>
> Corruption is as Greek as spanakopita.
>
> That doesn't mean all greeks are corrupt - or even most. Just enough to
> make the whole society suffer.
>
>
> --
> Steve
>
It has that similarity with parts of Oceania.
Gregory wrote:
> "Steve" <steve@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:v1nOa.3471$9f7.373445@no-spam
> > lisieux allegedly said:
> >
> > > Finland had to choose between Greece which is a country barely in
> > > control of itself becaue of prostitution induced organized crime and
> > > trafficking and Sweden which is seen by the USA as being one of the
> > > very good guys. Finland will go with the Swedish idea to the greater
> > > extent.
> > >
> > > I am delighted that the Finns are thinking of going one better and
> > > tackling the internet variants of organized crime directly.
> >
> > Greeks and Finns are very different types of people.
>
> Must be the weather.
The size of their brains are in direct proportion to the size of their penis,
but then I have not figured out the flaw in the theory with the Japanese.
>
>
> >
> > The assumption that runs through all your posts is that people are the
> same
> > everywhere.
>
> In many important respects they are.
>
> >
> > In many ways they are. In many ways they are not.
>
> Exactly my own thoughts.
>
> >
> > Corruption is as Greek as spanakopita.
> >
> > That doesn't mean all greeks are corrupt - or even most. Just enough to
> > make the whole society suffer.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Steve
> >
>
> It has that similarity with parts of Oceania.
okaro@no-spam (Osmo Ronkanen) wrote in message news:<d0d3e7d9.0307120321.47586841@no-spam>...
> nz@no-spam (Flannagan) wrote in message news:<4e3facfd.0307112017.58ff2763@no-spam>...
> > David Sanders <Sanders@no-spam> wrote in message news:<3F0B887E.5554F0AD@no-spam>...
> > > > > very good guys.
> > >
> > > Any country that does anything to gain respect from the USA gets
> > > what it deserves. The USA is in the process of making intersexuals
> > > subhumans, and second class chattel, by saying to them they cannot
> > > legally marry at all, because they cannot pass the very narrow definition
> > > of being exclusively a man or a woman. Under DOMA (the Defense Of
> > > heterosexual Marriage Act) they already cannot legally marry, but
> > > the USA congress has introduced a Constitutional Amendment that
> > > would say for all time to come, that intersexuals and homosexuals
> > > are inferior to all human beings. In that light do you really care what
> > > the USA thinks?
> >
> >
> > This is a very bad argument. You infer that if a person can not
> > legally marry then they are chattel. If this were true (which it is
> > not) then of course children are chattel, as they cannot be legally
> > married and so I suppose that unless you support child slavery
> > pedophila should be legalised.
No and No
I am not a homophobe the word phobia refers to a neurotic fear. I do
not have a neurotic fear of homosexuals I have a theologically and
philosophically based ethical objection to sex between members of the
same sex. I think that it is prejudiced to claim that anyone who holds
a particular philosophical position one disagrees with in mentally
unwell in some way.
Second I did not say that Gays were comparible to children please re
read this post. What I said was that the inference made by the
original poster if true would entail that children are chattel. Seeing
children are not chattel this inference must therefore be false.
Testing the soundness of an argument by examining wether it entails
absurdities is a perfectly proper proceedure in analysising ethical or
philosophical arguments.
Finally although I did not assert that homosexuals are are *somehow*
comparible to children. If I had this would not necessarily be
objectionable it would all depend on in what way they were
comparible. Both children and homosexuals ( and heterosexuals) have
two hands are human beings, breath oxgen, live on earth etc. To say
that they are comparible in these ways is not objectionable it is in
fact true. On the other hand there are many ways in which Homosexuals
differ from children, significnatly in that they are rational and
autonomus and hence responsible for their actions. I have never denied
that homosexuals are comparible to children in this way.
Ironically this position is closer to that put foward by some
defenders of Gay rights. Who argue that normative prohibitions upon
homosexual conduct are oppressive because Gays do not choose to be
this way and hence do not choose to engage in such conduct. If this
were true then homosexuals would be like children in that they cannot
freely choose wether or not to engage in particular sexual activities.
But I have never held this position.
Matt
