On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:44:32 GMT, ByTor <ByTor@no-spam>
wrote:
>In article <a92njvsbm3hi3qrn0urb0ep5kaikh2j87r@no-spam>, ob110ob@no-spam
>says...
>
>> >Let's do a little snipping<
>
>What happened? Ya didn't like my snipping? I was straining my eyes to
>read.....It was beginning to get harder to follow... ;0)
>
>>
>> >
>> >Obwon:
>> >> Well, as I understand it the city has been using two class
>> >> rooms to run a test school for over 19 years. If that is true,
>> >> and I'm sure it is, then it means that the city already has data
>> >> in hand to prove the utility and therefore the need for this
>> >> school. Better performance would justify it, if I'm reading the
>> >> words of the opponents here correctly.
>> >> The constitutional issues, as I said before, will take second
>> >> place over the educational mission. This is because, as any
>> >> judge will likely rule, children are "special case" citizens as
>> >> is evidenced by the laws requirement that they have guardians act
>> >> on their behalf in the greatest majority of cases on the largest
>> >> number of issues.
>> >> So then, with the educational department citing a need and
>> >> proving utility of what it is doing, the rules of guardianship
>> >> will take precedence since it supports the educational mission.
>> >> That gets us around the issues of why and how gays suffer etc.,
>> >> and get us straight to the point of how do they do better.
>> >> Without having to go into why.
>> >>
>> >
>> >ByTor:
>> >Refering to the below article.............
>> >You have to admit, it does appear that they may have a very valid
>> >point/position if it does not adhere to specific guidelines already set
>> >by the educational system.
>> >Now, don't get me wrong, I am saying this without full understanding of
>> >these "guidelines" so I can't really form much of an opinion until I see
>> >them.......I guess with the "Lawyerly" ways out there everything is just
>> >a matter of interpretation....And boy oh boy can some lawyers twist
>> >it......;0)
>> >But, I will do my research though..............
>> >
>> >
>> >Obwon:
>> >> Article from today's Daily News...
>> >> -----------
>> <and snipping here too>
>>
>> Nor have I seen the guidelines either, but one things for
>> sure, guidelines are simply that: guidelines, hardly the best
>> basis for a lawsuit since they are under the direct control of
>> the agency that sets them. So that a conference or hearing
>> within the agency would be the most logical place to start any
>> oppositional action. The judge in this case may very well rule
>> the case out for "failure to exhaust remedies".
>>
>> Certainly with an education department hearing record in hand,
>> they stand a much better chance of going forward since they would
>> also have benefit of the education departments opinions, data and
>> other informations that went into the decision.
>>
>> That aside, the department of education is free, without aid of
>> outside authority, to change, alter and amend it's own guidelines
>> to conform with its views of how to better discharge its duties
>> and mission. As a result, the judge may very well rule that the
>> plaintiff's arguments do not give him jurisdiction. Or, he may
>> simply order that the dept. of Ed. amend its guidelines to
>> conform with its new reality. Neither of which would be seen as
>> a very big win for the plaintiffs.
>>
>> They are on a very slippery slope to begin with and they risk
>> being seen as part of the problem in their efforts to maintain,
>> rather needlessly, the state of "arrested cultural development"
>> our society suffers. We do have "bigger fish to fry," in our
>> society at large, after all.
>
>Well, I guess I can say that hopefully all of this works out....I'm
>still not sure if I believe that seperatism is the answer though even
>though you have been very persuasive in your analysis and approach, and
>I most definitely respect that. I still think the bottom line is the
>idea of "seperatism."
>I feel in some way that seperatism is a remedy to avoid the situation,
>not prevent it. People will do what they want but we as a society must
>uphold the principles & laws laid down, people MUST respect the law and
>if they are found to not respect someones contitutional right than they
>should be dealt with. In the past oppressed people dealt with there
>situations "without" public supported seperatism....Yes there are still
>things to be worked out but it's working. And as you have stated this is
>an unexplored area as compared to "racism" and we are better equipped,
>but, that took time & so will this..........
If you find my argument persuasive it's probably because you
get the feeling that it's reasonable. Underlying that seems to
be the fact that although most social mores can be dealt with by
mere admonishments, what do you; or can you, do in a case where
religious tolerance forbids you to admonish believers and
adherents of various religious doctrines? The answer is you
can't as an educator, even begin to get into the issues without
heavy prepping and, even then you will have to skirt gingerly
around the issues and use heavy hinting. Hardly the more direct
approach that is usually required to impart knowledge to people
so young.
I don't consider this separatism for a few reasons, one of
which is the fact that it is plainly and clearly stated that
applicants of other sexual preferences won't be kept out and are
welcomed to attend if they choose. Secondly, Catholics, Jews,
and other religious groups have their own schools. And other
races have schools that are predominantly for them even if not
"officially" ladled as such. The point being that they don't
raise constitutional questions when they freely and openly admit
"others". So, this one too, I believe will meet the
required/permissible criteria.
Hopefully, at some time in the future as our society grows
away from taboos borne of distinct lack of knowledge, schools
like the Harvey Milk school will be needed only to memorialize
the person to be so honored by having a public edifice in their
name.
Obwon
O[]ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ[]O
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can
make you commit atrocities."
- Voltaire
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