On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 01:12:22 GMT, "Who Cares?"
<whocares@no-spam> wrote:
>
>"Obwon" <ob110ob@no-spam> wrote in message
>news:7vifivcr4k42enpe4lnki61n5vjqooaclj@no-spam
>| On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 03:33:55 GMT, "Who Cares?"
>| <whocares@no-spam> wrote:
>|
<snips>
>| >If we extend the privildge to gay kids, we need to extend it to ALL
>| >kids that are impeded in the learning process by anything -
>religion,
>| >skin color, appearance, income, whatever. The gay students I am
>| >familiar with receive no more taunting than many other kids.
>|
>| And you do feel comfortable with them and freely associate with
>| them right?
>
>Yes I do. They know that I do not approve of their lifestyle, but we
>are still friends.
Then good for you and I guess I lose an easy example. But I
think you got the point I was trying to make anyway. After all,
not everyone is like you and I'm sure that you read the papers.
So I know that you know that the abuse/exclusion etc., factors
are really there.
The real question is weather or not they are so significant in
various ways as to justify special case treatments.
Obwon
O[]ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ[]O
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can
make you commit atrocities."
- Voltaire
O[]ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ[]O
On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:55:15 -0700, Each Hero Sues Ookie
<EachHeroSuesOokie@no-spam> wrote:
>On 7/30/03 1:08 AM, in article 1fyvwef.1ylel9h1gbf134N%usenet@no-spam
>"Paul Mitchum" <usenet@no-spam> wrote:
>
>> Each Hero Sues Ookie <EachHeroSuesOokie@no-spam> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/29/03 10:08 PM, in article 1fyvpcz.13jmhd41fevctgN%usenet@no-spam
>>> "Paul Mitchum" <usenet@no-spam> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Each Hero Sues Ookie <EachHeroSuesOokie@no-spam> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/29/03 3:33 PM, in article 1fyv5o7.3z8mxi1aitnwlN%usenet@no-spam
>>>>> "Paul Mitchum" <usenet@no-spam> wrote:
>>>>>> whit <whit@no-spam> wrote:
>>>> [..]
>>>>>>> it's wrong, it's against everything we have learned in the last
>>>>>>> several decades about equality, fairness, and justice. and it has no
>>>>>>> place in a public school.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a really unfortunate comparison, but do you believe that the
>>>>>> developmentally-disabled should be mainstreamed?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes. And if they flunk out, they should take their voucher to school
>>>>> that meets their (special) needs.
>>>>
>>>> So creating a proper learning environment in the first place isn't part
>>>> of your plan.
>>>
>>> Meeting every special need? No.
>>
>> Why not?
>>
>> You advocate giving them a voucher to meet every special need, but you
>> don't advocate meeting every special need in public school. What's the
>> difference?
>
>That's not the way government should work. You have a special need for a
>road from your house to the public library, but that wouldn't be a very
>efficient expenditure. So instead the government builds roads (or meets the
>needs) of the largest population segment. Could the government give you a
>voucher to pave a dirt road that connects your house to the thoroughfare?
>Could the government give a mentally disabled kid a voucher to go to a
>private school to meet his needs? Yes, if they can afford it.
>
Funny you should mention it... The state built the "private"
Public road that connects the Rockefella estate to the main
highway; I remember reading somewhere. While the road is
supposed to be public, the only people likely to use it would
have to be visitors to the estate, it just doesn't go anywhere
else. :-D
Obwon
O[]ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ[]O
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can
make you commit atrocities."
- Voltaire
O[]ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ[]O
On 7/31/03 7:52 AM, in article 7jshivog8h6elsv1h0gto2d1r16clehqul@no-spam
"Obwon" <ob110ob@no-spam> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:55:15 -0700, Each Hero Sues Ookie
> <EachHeroSuesOokie@no-spam> wrote:
>
>> On 7/30/03 1:08 AM, in article 1fyvwef.1ylel9h1gbf134N%usenet@no-spam
>> "Paul Mitchum" <usenet@no-spam> wrote:
>>
>>> Each Hero Sues Ookie <EachHeroSuesOokie@no-spam> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/29/03 10:08 PM, in article 1fyvpcz.13jmhd41fevctgN%usenet@no-spam
>>>> "Paul Mitchum" <usenet@no-spam> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Each Hero Sues Ookie <EachHeroSuesOokie@no-spam> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/29/03 3:33 PM, in article 1fyv5o7.3z8mxi1aitnwlN%usenet@no-spam
>>>>>> "Paul Mitchum" <usenet@no-spam> wrote:
>>>>>>> whit <whit@no-spam> wrote:
>>>>> [..]
>>>>>>>> it's wrong, it's against everything we have learned in the last
>>>>>>>> several decades about equality, fairness, and justice. and it has no
>>>>>>>> place in a public school.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a really unfortunate comparison, but do you believe that the
>>>>>>> developmentally-disabled should be mainstreamed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes. And if they flunk out, they should take their voucher to school
>>>>>> that meets their (special) needs.
>>>>>
>>>>> So creating a proper learning environment in the first place isn't part
>>>>> of your plan.
>>>>
>>>> Meeting every special need? No.
>>>
>>> Why not?
>>>
>>> You advocate giving them a voucher to meet every special need, but you
>>> don't advocate meeting every special need in public school. What's the
>>> difference?
>>
>> That's not the way government should work. You have a special need for a
>> road from your house to the public library, but that wouldn't be a very
>> efficient expenditure. So instead the government builds roads (or meets the
>> needs) of the largest population segment. Could the government give you a
>> voucher to pave a dirt road that connects your house to the thoroughfare?
>> Could the government give a mentally disabled kid a voucher to go to a
>> private school to meet his needs? Yes, if they can afford it.
>>
>
> Funny you should mention it... The state built the "private"
> Public road that connects the Rockefella estate to the main
> highway; I remember reading somewhere. While the road is
> supposed to be public, the only people likely to use it would
> have to be visitors to the estate, it just doesn't go anywhere
> else. :-D
Quite a rip-off. Would that be Jay Rockefeller?
On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 10:54:01 -0700, "whit" <whit@no-spam> wrote:
>
>"Obwon" <ob110ob@no-spam> wrote in message
>news:ipmsivk0rm9k87ci8el93oc403bqhilob8@no-spam
>> On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 00:21:26 GMT, "whitster" <whit@no-spam>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Obwon <ob110ob@no-spam> wrote in message
>> >news:v3ckivoo210o87kmemoke38k6bfrevlc8a@no-spam
>> >> On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:32:32 -0700, "whit" <whit@no-spam> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> <snips>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Well, now we're getting somewhere! The answer is no, I don't
>> >> >> know the answers to these questions, I haven't yet had cause to
>> >> >> look. That hardly indicates that I've been giving the solution
>> >> >> "knee jerk" approval as you so derisively phrase it (poor choice
>> >> >> of words perhaps? I won't dwell on it, it's not important to me,
>> >> >> but merely hoping for you to note the "flavor" of word choices so
>> >> >> as to perhaps get a better handle on it. After all, the task is
>> >> >> to debate a subject, not to impugn each other.)
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >i agree. but imo, coming out in support of radical and arguably
>> >> >unconstitutional (and inarguably divisive and balkanizing) legislation
>> >> >without reams of statistical data in support of the 'need' is (imo)
>> >classic
>> >> >knee jerk.
>> >>
>> >> Only if you feel that the action was taken without it! I
>> >> assume that they did do it already
>> >
>> >and i don't make such a ridiculous assaumption.
>>
>> Then I take it that you think that there is wide acceptance of
>> gays and their lifestyles? No homophobia? That's all just a
>> figment of someone's wild imagination? Hmmm...
>> That, of course, is what it would take to make my assumption
>> ridiculous.
>>
>
>that's a logical fallacy. you are excluding the middle.
There it is... That phrase Phil the home brew drinker uses
often to absolutely no reasonable effect. "excluding the
middle".
After that all the rest is easily understood to be merely
rhetoric and prattle. I'd rather not waste my time.
Regards
Obwon
O[]ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ[]O
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can
make you commit atrocities."
- Voltaire
O[]ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ[]O
